WEBVTT

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Sounds good.

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Good. morning, good morning, good morning,

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everybody. Thank you so much for joining us around the fireside today.

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Looks like we have lots of people joining

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us. Got the campfire cooking.

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Let's do a quick technology

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check, uh,

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for those that are here.

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Um,

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if you can... Oh, you beat

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me to it. Raise your hand if you can hear us. Let's do a little mic check for Tim

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and, and Matt as well.

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Thank you so much everybody.

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for playing along. If you can see the,

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uh,

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screen there,

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Fireside Chat. Awesome. Thank you everybody

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so much. Lots of new faces I see around the campfire this morning.

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As I was kind of getting ready, I'm like, man, this is an early one. Typically,

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um, we do these 2:00 PM

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Eastern, uh, but today. we're, we're switching things up a little bit. We got an. early campfire. Um, interestingly enough,

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I'm sitting here, in Seattle, Washington,

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uh, at. a, uh, at a campsite.

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Little early,

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um, but I can see all the folks

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kind of around me. Quick poll:

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what is your

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favorite camp

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breakfast?

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Type it into the, uh, into the chat. If you got a favorite camp breakfast, I'm talking flapjacks perhaps,

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maybe scrambled

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eggs. Matt, Tim, what would be

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your, uh, your ideal camp breakfast?

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Just a pound of

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bacon. I think I'm with you on

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that one. Yeah, you know, we don't, you know... Anything else is a bonus. A pound of bacon, and then

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we're good. Yeah. Yeah. You, you, you def- you definitely have to get the bacon out to get

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the smell out and attract the bears and- ... and, uh, make sure that, make sure that's,

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that happens. But then, yeah, I like, to make up a little eggs, and then, uh, you know, being in

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the Southwest, we, we like a little, uh, salsa, so let's make a, let's make a, uh, bacon egg, uh,

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cheese burrito. Makes sense.

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Makes sense. Everyone else weigh in on that. Type it

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into the chat. That way it's, it's easier to eat too. You have the paper plate- Paper plate goes

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right in the fire. It's all good.

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There you go. Yeah. Yeah. It burns like crazy from all the bacon, so it's just great.

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Get the flat grill out

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and start cranking.

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Sounds good. Well, lots of folks are signing in, grabbing, uh, grabbing their chairs around the campfire.

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The early one. this morning, for sure.

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And we'll get this thing going. It's, uh, about one minute past the top of the hour.

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We'll wait for more folks to, uh, to grab their,

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their seat around the fire, and we'll, uh, we'll get going here in, in about a minute or two.

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Hey, for those... Hey, if you're in the Seattle, market,

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um,

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I wanna alert you, we, we're hosting an event actually later this afternoon around 11:30 at

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Topgolf, uh, here in Renton. So if you are a consultant or

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broker, um, and you're

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looking for, uh, a presentation on, Angle

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Health, and fundamentally a really nice lunch and perhaps little,

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little golf, um, shoot me. a private message or, uh, go to, go to sales@anglehealth.com, drop

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your note in. We'll send you a registration link. Uh, it's not too late to come and join us this,

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uh, this afternoon. Interestingly

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enough, you got your phone out, you can actually hit this QR code as well, and that'll take you right

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to those links for some of our stops on the, Angle Advantage Tour.

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We got more coming to the East. If you're a broker or consultant on. the East Coast,

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please feel free to, uh, to scan that, and check back frequently

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as we continue to host

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events as we gear up for fourth

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quarter. We are recording today's session,

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um, with our, uh, our panelists, Matt and, and Tim

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here. Um, and super excited to talk about musculoskeletal care and beyond

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back pain. We're gonna be recording, as

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I mentioned. Um, so we will have

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that available a little bit later this afternoon. And of course, if you visit anglehealth.com,

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uh, and go to that About Us. page, we've added Fireside Chat as a dropdown link.

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You, can always click on there. You, can watch back

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episodes, um, as

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well as

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register for future

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Firesides.

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And hey, look, it's, uh, it's about three minutes past the hour here. Again, thank you everybody for joining

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us this morning for an early edition of our Fireside Chat series.

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Uh, my name is David Slepak.

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I am the, uh, Vice President of Sales and Marketing here at, at

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Angle Health, and super excited to have everybody, uh, around the fireside today.

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Uh, this one hits home for me. Um, and you know, for those that, are familiar,

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uh, or, you know, uh, I've been friends with or, or whatnot, um,

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last year almost to the

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day, almost

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to the day, um, I had emergency back surgery, interestingly

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enough. Um, and, uh, I had a, uh, a microdiscectomy, if you will, between my L3 and L4, and

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the reason why I had it is because I couldn't feel my legs. Um, and Tim knows the story pretty

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good, uh, 'cause

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it was a mess, uh, for me and, and certainly something that'

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I went through, uh, personally about, about a year ago. So this is a, a very important topic,

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if

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you will, um, and certainly hits

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home. So it often gets waved off, you know, as aches and pains, but for employer

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groups, one of the most expensive problems on the books, you know, driving healthcare spend-

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Disability, absenteeism,

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productivity, um, this, this is a real challenge for a lot of folks out

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there. So today we're gonna unpack, uh, muscular skeletal care, what it really means, why brokers and consultants

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should be paying attention,

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and how the

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right strategy improves access, guides employees to appropriate care,

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uh, reduces unnecessary imaging and surgery, all while lowering costs.

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Um, so I'm joined today by two panelists,

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uh,

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who bring a rare mix of clinical and business

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perspectives. Uh, first we have Matt Vander Kooy,

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founder of Solve Global. Matt started as a physical therapist,

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uh, founding New Life Physical Therapy back in 2022

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before co-founding Solve Global in 20se-

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'27,

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um, around the simple idea, you know, catch muscular skeletal risk

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early before it turns into back pain and, and a costly

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claim, uh, or in my case, you know, emergency

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surgery. Um, we're also joined by Tim Spooner, and I've known Tim for far too long,

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uh, of Sp- uh, Spooner Physical Therapy and So- Solve

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Global. Uh, Tim opened up his first PT clinic in Scottsdale in 1990.

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Uh, since grown into Arizona's largest private physical therapy

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practice, uh, as the CEO

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of Solve Global. I mean, redesigned his own company's healthcare plan as an employer, and I've been watching that for

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years, Tim, uh, with great success. I mean, I think you've actually won some awards,

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uh, if I, if I'm not mistaken, for, uh, for your healthcare plan that you provide to your employees.

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We should talk

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a little bit about that, uh,

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as well.

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Um, he brings a, a rare view from, from three sides of the table, both as a provider,

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um, a buyer,

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right? Um, and, and a solution.

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Uh, and doesn't hold back on how wasteful he thinks

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the current, uh, the current system is.

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So I'm, I'm looking for some very colorful, uh, conversation around that this, this afternoon

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or this morning, I should say,

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uh, Tim. So welcome, welcome, welcome both of you to, uh, to the Fireside.

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I'd be remiss-- Hey, if this is your first Fireside, go ahead and raise your hand.

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Go ahead and raise your hand if this is your, your first one that you've, uh, you've, you've attended.

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One of the things that we talk about here, um, is the key log, right? The key

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log. And, and this is,

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uh, a big piece of the puzzle and, and something that's near

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and dear to, uh, to,

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to me, um, and certainly a, a cornerstone of the theme.

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Um, and before we dive in, I'll, I'll give a brief update

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on the, uh, on the key log, just so we're all on the same page.

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You know, close your eyes and take you back to a different time, uh, to a logging town, if you

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will, nestled deep

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in the forest where timber was king and the river was its highway. Every spring, thousands of logs

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floated downstream, guided only by the current

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and strength

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of the crew. But on all those logs, there was one

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that mattered most, the key log.

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It was that one that if jammed, could literally stop everything, clogging the river, stalling the town's economy, threatening

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everything downstream.

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Um,

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this story, and Matt, uh, Matt and I were talking about it 'cause he's, he's actually from Wisconsin,

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uh, and he knows where I went to,

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to, uh, summer camp in, in the Northwoods in Hayward. Um, every Friday

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night we'd gather around this campfire for what we called the key log ceremony, and it was

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this time to share something meaningful

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from the week, an accomplishment, a thank you to another camper or counselor,

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or just a moment of-- that really just stood out. And each of us would toss a small wooden

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key

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log into the fire. A simple act that carried reflection,

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gratitude,

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uh, and a connection. And these moments taught me something very important.

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You know, as a little boy, uh, at, at summer camp, that progress

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doesn't always come from doing more. Sometimes it comes from recognizing what really matters

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and freeing that key log, frankly, that has been holding everything back. And as,

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as we look at our world, right? The world of, of health

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insurance and employee-sponsored healthcare

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plans, I think that same principle applies, right? As we identify these

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and release the key logs,

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uh, we serve our brokers, our consultants, our employers, our

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members. Uh, and wherever you sit kind of in the ecosystem, you unlock something far more powerful. So

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I am looking forward, uh, today's conversation, Matt and, and Tim, on some of those key logs,

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right? Uh, that- Yep ... you can kinda hone in

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on, um, to release, you know, uh, what's, what's behind and for better access, better outcomes,

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um, and frankly, a smoother flow for everyone downstream. So welcome, welcome, welcome, everybody. Um, let's just jump right

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in,

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gentlemen, um, and, and start the, the conversation here,

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um, around musculoskeletal and, and, you know, beyond just the back pain.

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Um, maybe you can kinda weigh in and, and we'll start with you,

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Tim. Um, you know, what made each

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of you see MSK as, as a top-tier cost and, and productivity

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issue rather than, you know, perhaps just routine

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medical? Uh, thanks, David, uh, number one for having us. And I, I think your intro is, is a perfect

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intro into the discussion

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of, uh, of

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MSDs, MSK. And, and when we look at musculoskeletal or musculoskeletal disorders, they're both

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kind of con- uh, jointly,

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uh, called, um, the reason that they're kind of a key

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log is because of how many people

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they affect. Um, they affect between 50% and 80% of an employee population

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every day. And if you don't do anything

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with people, um, and taking

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care of them, those things can escalate and then, enter the medical system. And when they enter the medical system,

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they become a problem.

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Um,

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as a provider, what I've seen over the last

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40 years of my

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career is where I used to see an injury

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within a few days or

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at least, you know, the max would

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be a week, now, it's

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months.

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And we know that,

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um,

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injuries after three months become chronic

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in nature, and by definition and, um, just physio-

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human physiology.

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And the problem with that. is, is that that person is still suffering. They haven't seen the right care provider.

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They've been bounced around through the medical system to

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get- Uh, numbers put on them called a diagnosis,

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um,

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and they've had imaging, medications, all kinds of different things

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that added to the cost, but nobody took care of them.

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There's a big difference between putting a diagnosis on somebody

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and actually treating the musculoskeletal issue.

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And

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the key thing with musculoskeletal issues is that they start out as functional issues first before they become medical

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issues, and that's where you, that's where

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you wanna catch them. Let's talk a little bit about kind of that difference, functional versus medical. What does that

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exactly mean?

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So

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a,

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a,

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a person, i- if you, if

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you, if you will, um, you know, they're a biosocial creature. They have financial concerns, they have

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physical concerns, they have emotional concerns.

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When people

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get hurt, whether it's, at work or at home or when they're doing their favorite activities,

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it' has an effect on,

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them. Um,

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and

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you know,

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these, these... when, when we think of functional issues, what we're talking about is just that the, the body

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has an amazing ability to recover its...

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to recover if it's taken care of and rebalanced properly and not overloaded.

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But when it's repetitively overloaded or repetitively had a problem,

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it' will continue to break down in that. So the key is catching these things early and then rebalancing

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that, that, uh, that load that's coming through the, through the

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body.

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So,

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um, when we think of

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functional,

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um, you know, it, it's not just that you can bend down and squat,

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it's that do you have the ability to do, you know, to, to bend

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down and squat? Do you have the motion, the strength, the balance, all of these different things,

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um, that a, that a, that a

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therapist with the proper tools can,

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can address.

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Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Maybe, maybe I can, uh, add a little bit to that from a, a

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specific example. Um, and your first question was,

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you know, the,

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um, the, the log around musculoskeletal.

00:14:44.572 --> 00:14:45.072
So back in

00:14:45.212 --> 00:14:48.252
2002, um, we started New Life Physical

00:14:48.332 --> 00:14:50.072
Therapy, and

00:14:50.532 --> 00:14:53.932
we realized that there was so many people that weren't getting to us. We would see people

00:14:54.002 --> 00:14:59.102
after they've had the surgery, after they've had the image, after they've had the injection, after they've had the f-

00:14:59.152 --> 00:15:02.052
failed whatever, um, and we weren't seeing

00:15:02.112 --> 00:15:09.552
them, um, until after they'd failed all these other things. And we realized there was a huge untapped, um, population

00:15:09.592 --> 00:15:13.992
not getting the help they needed in the employer space. So that was, um... we started to see that

00:15:14.012 --> 00:15:15.442
in 2002, 2003.

00:15:16.132 --> 00:15:19.782
So we started working directly with em- employers in 2005,

00:15:20.552 --> 00:15:20.902
and

00:15:21.512 --> 00:15:25.992
w- with our system, we identify risk, people that are having issues early. So what's risk

00:15:26.032 --> 00:15:29.992
for a claim? It's people that are having discomfort. And we started to,

00:15:30.112 --> 00:15:35.301
um, find who are the people that are at. risk in the populations. And we, we found in our early

00:15:35.412 --> 00:15:37.092
datasets back over 20

00:15:37.132 --> 00:15:41.112
years ago, 50% plus were having significant

00:15:41.152 --> 00:15:46.112
discomfort, uh, in the workplace. And, and that was supported in occupational studies later

00:15:46.152 --> 00:15:51.712
than that. Um, we now know in occupational studies it's 50% to 80%, but, you know, before all that, we

00:15:51.752 --> 00:15:53.132
were seeing that with some of the things

00:15:53.172 --> 00:15:57.872
we were looking at. So that was interesting, and that really let us know that this is a, a key

00:15:57.932 --> 00:16:02.102
log we should be looking at and helping people with, and we need to go where the people need us,

00:16:02.152 --> 00:16:03.132
and that's in the employer

00:16:03.192 --> 00:16:06.152
space. Um, and then we talk about that, that

00:16:06.312 --> 00:16:09.992
functional thing versus medical that Tim was talking about.

00:16:10.032 --> 00:16:12.921
Just... So medical is... The,

00:16:13.072 --> 00:16:17.992
the b- the medical approach to musculoskeletal, and we would say it doesn't work and we need

00:16:18.052 --> 00:16:22.062
a new model. And just to reinforce what Tim was saying, we know that it's

00:16:22.112 --> 00:16:28.232
not working 'cause chronic pain is the fastest growing chronic condition today according to a study in 2023.

00:16:28.952 --> 00:16:33.002
Um, and it's growing faster than high blood pressure, faster than diabetes, faster than

00:16:33.012 --> 00:16:38.172
depression. And why is... And what's, what grows chronic pain? Musculoskeletal disorders.

00:16:38.232 --> 00:16:43.452
So, so that tells us it's not being managed right, so we need a different approach. And that's,

00:16:43.492 --> 00:16:48.341
we talk about functional first, which is rebalancing the person with their task demands

00:16:48.752 --> 00:16:54.692
and their environment they're working in, and it's a very complex interaction. It's very dynamic, changing all the time.

00:16:54.752 --> 00:17:01.372
And Tim highlighted that this person is a biocycle social creature. Very complex.

00:17:01.812 --> 00:17:02.022
And it's

00:17:02.052 --> 00:17:05.002
not just about, "Oh, you have this on an image, let's fix it." It's a

00:17:05.051 --> 00:17:10.362
lot more than that. Um, and an example, so we, we built a system to help employers, and I still

00:17:10.392 --> 00:17:13.012
use that system every week that we built 'cause I wanna

00:17:13.071 --> 00:17:17.051
know that it works. So I wor- I work with a population. I manage a, a glass

00:17:17.152 --> 00:17:20.392
plant, 220 people, and I saw a guy yesterday.

00:17:21.212 --> 00:17:22.132
And, and this guy

00:17:22.212 --> 00:17:28.182
yesterday, uh, wrist pain right here. So we wanna see, okay, what's, what's like causing that irritation?

00:17:28.192 --> 00:17:32.762
And there's a structure in here, in the, in the inside of the wrist and, and it's called the triangular

00:17:32.952 --> 00:17:34.192
fibrocartilage complex.

00:17:34.772 --> 00:17:37.112
Um, but what the key with that, it was irritated

00:17:37.132 --> 00:17:42.972
with him, and it's e- that is irritated usually with a lot of rotation. Now, we could send him

00:17:43.012 --> 00:17:47.752
to imaging, we could send him to medical, we could do all those things, or we could simply teach him

00:17:47.792 --> 00:17:53.062
how to move in a way, match that task demand in a way that keeps his wrist neutral,

00:17:53.692 --> 00:17:57.052
so that he's not continuing to grind that tissue by rotating

00:17:57.072 --> 00:17:57.532
the wrist.

00:17:58.312 --> 00:17:59.092
Um, pain

00:17:59.112 --> 00:18:02.632
went away. He was also having an issue with his neck.

00:18:03.112 --> 00:18:07.272
And in the issue with his neck, again, we could send him to imaging, send him to doctors, get imaging,

00:18:07.392 --> 00:18:09.092
EMGs, do all that stuff,

00:18:09.892 --> 00:18:13.332
but his muscles were overworking because of his postural position of his head.

00:18:13.772 --> 00:18:14.992
So he can fix that with

00:18:15.032 --> 00:18:19.232
education, and the pain goes away. We don't need all this medical stuff.

00:18:19.632 --> 00:18:22.292
It was a functional issue, and that's just one individual yesterday.

00:18:22.352 --> 00:18:27.112
But we see, you know, in, in our s- systems thousands of people every day with these types of things.

00:18:27.192 --> 00:18:30.032
So, um, that was a long answer- That's it ... but hopefully

00:18:30.072 --> 00:18:30.852
illustrates some things.

00:18:31.392 --> 00:18:35.792
You know, it's- but I think you really tap into something that, you know, quite frankly is,

00:18:36.012 --> 00:18:38.112
is, is something that we need to address,

00:18:38.152 --> 00:18:40.112
and that's what is, what is the root

00:18:40.192 --> 00:18:45.992
cause, right? Yeah. Exactly. Um, and, you know, if you're looking at from a functional

00:18:46.032 --> 00:18:51.232
perspective, um, you know, a steroid injection or,

00:18:51.272 --> 00:18:52.952
you know, Oxycontin

00:18:53.152 --> 00:18:56.252
or something like, that's not, that's gonna address the root cause,

00:18:56.932 --> 00:18:59.212
um, by, by any- Right ... stretch of the imagination.

00:18:59.232 --> 00:18:59.732
And I think,

00:19:00.452 --> 00:19:06.121
you know, even as, as a people in the medical field, oftentimes we, we go from zero to 100 miles

00:19:06.152 --> 00:19:10.312
an hour, you know, in 28 seconds and, and that can be problematic

00:19:10.392 --> 00:19:14.032
where, you know, I wish I would've known 20

00:19:14.052 --> 00:19:14.592
years ago,

00:19:15.212 --> 00:19:21.062
um, functionally what was happening with my own body, right? Um, to- Right ... prevent some of the challenges

00:19:21.092 --> 00:19:24.452
that, that I have. So, you know, as we kind of think about and, and continue to unpack

00:19:25.032 --> 00:19:26.012
some of these pieces,

00:19:26.392 --> 00:19:26.632
um,

00:19:26.972 --> 00:19:33.152
around just function and, and Tim and Matt, what, what percentage maybe, and, you know, take a guess

00:19:33.232 --> 00:19:34.012
or, or maybe you have some

00:19:34.032 --> 00:19:39.152
hard numbers of these types of muscular skeletal type things come from,

00:19:39.692 --> 00:19:41.992
we'll say an acute type injury

00:19:42.112 --> 00:19:45.052
type thing, right? Like I did something and hurt myself

00:19:45.672 --> 00:19:47.012
or perhaps, Matt, as what you're

00:19:47.032 --> 00:19:51.872
describing, look like, you know, I'm, I'm a construction worker or I'm sitting at a desk all day, or whatever

00:19:51.892 --> 00:19:57.732
that might be, and I'm just, you know, grinding on this particular thing or that particular thing and almost creating

00:19:57.772 --> 00:20:01.982
my own problem over time because of whatever I'm engaged in at

00:20:02.032 --> 00:20:04.032
that moment. Right. You bring up

00:20:04.352 --> 00:20:07.132
a, a great point here and, and there's, there's a, there's a, there's a third

00:20:07.172 --> 00:20:10.202
category in there because people always have

00:20:10.252 --> 00:20:13.972
an incident. You know, they, they bent over to get some toilet

00:20:14.052 --> 00:20:16.032
paper, um, you know, whether they're

00:20:16.052 --> 00:20:18.172
going to the bathroom and their back

00:20:18.212 --> 00:20:20.152
went out. Do we think

00:20:20.192 --> 00:20:22.072
that that really injured their

00:20:22.092 --> 00:20:29.092
back or was it the thousands of things that happened before that? And so there's the incident that people notice

00:20:29.102 --> 00:20:29.212
a

00:20:29.252 --> 00:20:32.052
pain, but there are warning signs much, much before that.

00:20:32.432 --> 00:20:33.772
And the, and the figure is,

00:20:34.002 --> 00:20:36.112
is, is, you know, it's less than 5%

00:20:36.152 --> 00:20:40.472
are acute injuries. The mem- vast, vast majority of them are cumulative

00:20:40.532 --> 00:20:42.612
trauma, repetitive injuries,

00:20:42.992 --> 00:20:43.952
chronic posture

00:20:44.032 --> 00:20:48.012
positions, um, y- that you know, there's all kinds of terms for it,

00:20:48.412 --> 00:20:50.112
but the vast majority of these

00:20:50.172 --> 00:20:56.412
things. Um, and when we look at these people as they come in, we know that 90%

00:20:56.452 --> 00:20:58.292
of them can be taken care of conservatively.

00:20:58.972 --> 00:21:03.032
There are still times when we may need a steroid injection to get somebody over the

00:21:03.072 --> 00:21:05.172
hump, um, so we can continue making

00:21:05.232 --> 00:21:07.052
progress, and that's okay.

00:21:07.592 --> 00:21:09.052
But you wanna start

00:21:09.112 --> 00:21:15.872
functional first, not with the imaging, not with the meds, not with the, the procedures because it'll, they're, they're, you

00:21:15.912 --> 00:21:18.012
gotta rebalance that, that person and help their

00:21:18.032 --> 00:21:25.632
body heal. Is there like a, you know, a top five warning list or, you know, warning signs either in

00:21:25.692 --> 00:21:32.172
a census or claims data or, you know, we have lots of consultants and brokers that are on this,

00:21:32.292 --> 00:21:35.252
uh, Around the Fireside today. Like, what should they be looking

00:21:35.332 --> 00:21:41.221
for as you describe kind of those, those things that happened before, perhaps, you know, you went down and,

00:21:41.252 --> 00:21:41.972
and pick up that

00:21:42.032 --> 00:21:44.992
toilet paper. Um, but what's happening before? I mean, is

00:21:45.012 --> 00:21:48.512
there, are there telltale signs or, or, you know, strategies

00:21:48.572 --> 00:21:51.452
that, that they can kind of hone in on, on that concept?

00:21:52.032 --> 00:21:54.192
I'll, I'll start this Matt, and I'll let you clean up, okay?

00:21:54.852 --> 00:21:55.212
Um,

00:21:55.732 --> 00:21:56.052
the,

00:21:57.092 --> 00:21:57.262
the,

00:21:57.852 --> 00:22:00.302
the challenge we have with the medical system

00:22:01.052 --> 00:22:04.072
and with looking at things from a claims perspective,

00:22:04.672 --> 00:22:07.132
it is, is that it's all going to be

00:22:07.212 --> 00:22:17.112
reactive. Something has already happened. It's already gotten a claim. We are looking to intervene before that. And so

00:22:17.152 --> 00:22:25.001
the early warning signs, um, are it, with musculoskeletal are measured through a comfort and performance check-in. And that's,

00:22:25.052 --> 00:22:26.532
that's what our solution

00:22:26.572 --> 00:22:30.032
does. We find those things and then we work

00:22:30.112 --> 00:22:32.022
upstream. Matt, I'll

00:22:32.072 --> 00:22:33.172
let you finish,

00:22:33.492 --> 00:22:33.792
finish

00:22:33.802 --> 00:22:36.032
that. Yeah. So discomfort,

00:22:36.332 --> 00:22:39.032
discomfort progressing to pain, progressing to claim.

00:22:39.672 --> 00:22:39.992
Um,

00:22:40.412 --> 00:22:44.162
the problem with the current strategies is we're addressing

00:22:44.162 --> 00:22:48.892
after claim and we're trying to just lower cost. We gotta lower the cost of the claim, lower the cost

00:22:48.912 --> 00:22:53.032
of the cl- the claim. I mean, so we see all these solutions for that and, and, and

00:22:53.092 --> 00:22:54.052
I'm not saying none of that

00:22:54.092 --> 00:22:57.112
is needed. Um, we do have a price problem, but

00:22:57.672 --> 00:22:57.972
we have

00:22:58.032 --> 00:23:03.912
a, a bigger root cause problem, which is what you said earlier, David, and that's finding these people that are

00:23:03.932 --> 00:23:07.332
having discomfort, find them early and address the root cause.

00:23:08.012 --> 00:23:13.112
Um, so, so that is the, that is the key to fixing this thing. And, and, and we've seen

00:23:13.152 --> 00:23:13.312
that

00:23:13.492 --> 00:23:17.272
now, um, in independent validations from different data companies

00:23:17.332 --> 00:23:20.112
that, that, that it does work and it is the approach.

00:23:20.772 --> 00:23:27.062
Um, from a, you know, the brokers that know that should I be focusing on musculoskeletal? Um, you know, what

00:23:27.092 --> 00:23:29.412
can they do to find do I have a musculoskeletal

00:23:29.472 --> 00:23:34.972
problem? You know, they can look at their data, um, and, and do a claims analysis. Now, what

00:23:35.052 --> 00:23:36.212
I would say with the claims

00:23:36.232 --> 00:23:39.892
analysis, um, we often see incomplete

00:23:40.072 --> 00:23:43.712
data polls. So when you're looking at musculoskeletal,

00:23:44.372 --> 00:23:45.092
you've gotta look at your

00:23:45.132 --> 00:23:45.862
data from,

00:23:46.972 --> 00:23:49.102
um, claims from

00:23:49.132 --> 00:23:55.072
extremities. Um, but then you have to look at claims from the spine. But you're not just looking at

00:23:55.152 --> 00:23:55.432
the,

00:23:56.032 --> 00:24:03.012
the M codes. You've gotta look at surgical codes, you've gotta look at anesthesia codes, you've gotta look for the,

00:24:03.112 --> 00:24:05.432
uh, instrumentation using the surgery, the facility

00:24:05.512 --> 00:24:08.272
fees. You gotta make sure. you're looking at a complete data set.

00:24:08.772 --> 00:24:12.172
And if you look at the complete data set, you'll often see, okay, we' do have a musculoskeletal

00:24:12.272 --> 00:24:13.972
issue with this company. It's, in our. top

00:24:14.012 --> 00:24:18.012
three of claims. Um, and when I talk to, the work comp side of the house, it's,

00:24:18.572 --> 00:24:24.152
it's by far 66% of, of total claims on that side, so we' do have a problem.

00:24:24.192 --> 00:24:27.152
We' need, do need to try to fix it, and how do we, fix it?

00:24:27.672 --> 00:24:31.172
We've gotta find these things. We've gotta find risk, which is discomfort.

00:24:31.772 --> 00:24:32.992
Uh, we' gotta find that upstream and go

00:24:33.032 --> 00:24:38.096
to root cause It makes a lot of sense. You know, it's interesting you bringing up the workers' comp piece.

00:24:38.736 --> 00:24:42.136
Um, and oftentimes, I'm actually doing a presentation next week,

00:24:42.796 --> 00:24:42.916
um,

00:24:43.016 --> 00:24:47.726
on, you know, under-enrolled workforces and, and, and low-wage workforces,

00:24:47.796 --> 00:24:50.976
and, you know, we call it the Monday morning claim syndrome on

00:24:51.036 --> 00:24:51.576
work comp

00:24:52.636 --> 00:24:57.216
. Uh, you know, and in the absence of a medical plan, right?

00:24:57.736 --> 00:25:01.086
Uh- Yeah ... you know, under these under-enrolled populations, if you will,

00:25:01.586 --> 00:25:06.356
"Well, I'll have health, insurance, but, you know, I was hanging Christmas lights this, uh, this past weekend

00:25:06.396 --> 00:25:07.335
and hurt my back.

00:25:07.996 --> 00:25:12.076
Oh gosh, I think I hurt my back ni- you know, last week at, at, at work, so,

00:25:12.216 --> 00:25:13.036
you know, I'm, I'm filing a

00:25:13.076 --> 00:25:17.086
work comp claim," uh, type of stuff. But, you know, it, it kind of goes hand-in-hand,

00:25:17.156 --> 00:25:18.606
right? Are there particular,

00:25:19.056 --> 00:25:21.146
you know, in, in. your work, and you guys have been doing this, for

00:25:21.636 --> 00:25:25.286
f- a very long time, are there particular populations,

00:25:25.716 --> 00:25:26.646
demographics,

00:25:27.056 --> 00:25:29.116
um, et cetera, that' kind of, you know, see

00:25:29.256 --> 00:25:35.156
a increased risk? Especially for the consultants, like, "Oh, you know, hey, we have a ton of this type

00:25:35.196 --> 00:25:35.956
of business

00:25:36.016 --> 00:25:42.236
on the books. Um, perhaps, you know, that would be where we sh- could focus some attention."

00:25:44.156 --> 00:25:45.016
Yeah, so- I, I'll take-

00:25:45.276 --> 00:25:48.236
Go ahead. Go ahead, Tim, you go ... go ahead. Yeah, I'd, uh, the answer is yes.

00:25:48.836 --> 00:25:52.156
Um, it, and, and it, and it has,

00:25:52.216 --> 00:25:54.096
it, it, musculoskeletal cuts across any

00:25:54.136 --> 00:25:57.136
industry. So we can see the same type of claims data,

00:25:57.736 --> 00:26:00.096
um, and information coming out of a call center

00:26:00.136 --> 00:26:04.306
where people are sitting as we do in material handling where they're throwing kegs and cases

00:26:04.336 --> 00:26:12.076
of beer around. Um, now, in things where there's more fast-moving and there's more, uh, risk for

00:26:12.136 --> 00:26:16.806
trauma, um, you know, they have a, they have, they have a little bit higher incidence on that, on those

00:26:16.856 --> 00:26:17.176
acute

00:26:17.236 --> 00:26:24.166
injuries. Um, but across the board, it's pretty consistent in all populations. The biggest

00:26:24.176 --> 00:26:29.076
thing we see is in what we call w- what is termed ageonomics.

00:26:29.616 --> 00:26:30.946
And as people

00:26:31.036 --> 00:26:34.116
age, the issues, if you don't take care

00:26:34.136 --> 00:26:36.176
of them in your 20s, in your 30s,

00:26:36.656 --> 00:26:42.636
by the time you get into your 40s and possibly 50s, and we do have an aging workforce in America,

00:26:42.656 --> 00:26:46.296
the claims past the age of 45 don't just continue to escalate.

00:26:46.606 --> 00:26:47.396
They actually

00:26:47.936 --> 00:26:48.296
double.

00:26:49.676 --> 00:26:49.876
So

00:26:50.476 --> 00:26:54.196
when you get a, when you get a cumulative trauma thing that's been going on for 10

00:26:54.256 --> 00:26:54.716
years

00:26:55.236 --> 00:26:58.016
that now hits the medical system

00:26:58.456 --> 00:27:01.076
and they start trying to figure out, "Gosh, what should I do

00:27:01.176 --> 00:27:01.976
with, you know,

00:27:02.076 --> 00:27:06.056
rotator cuff, you know, degeneration?"

00:27:06.616 --> 00:27:11.036
Um, and it just goes through multiple procedures and, and different things

00:27:11.816 --> 00:27:15.176
when these things could have been very easily taken care of. But

00:27:15.216 --> 00:27:20.976
it's, it's, it's more you gotta watch your demographics and have what we call, you know, you gotta

00:27:21.016 --> 00:27:25.196
have a human maintenance solution. You've got a fleet maintenance. You've got IT maintenance.

00:27:25.696 --> 00:27:30.116
You've got all kinds of other solutions for, to protect your business

00:27:30.276 --> 00:27:30.676
risk.

00:27:31.576 --> 00:27:35.976
Well, your health of your employee population is a huge

00:27:36.036 --> 00:27:40.516
risk for an employer, and you just kind of illustrated that Monday m- Monday morning, uh,

00:27:40.616 --> 00:27:40.856
um,

00:27:41.256 --> 00:27:44.116
issue. Uh, for, he's paying both ways

00:27:44.476 --> 00:27:46.016
a lot of times, the, the employer is.

00:27:46.476 --> 00:27:49.156
And so why don't we just find that person,

00:27:49.196 --> 00:27:53.176
take care of them, and when the, when the employee feels taken care

00:27:53.236 --> 00:27:57.096
of, there's a, there's a lot of things that happen from, uh, number

00:27:57.156 --> 00:27:59.076
one, the, the, the employee feels, "Wow, my,

00:27:59.596 --> 00:28:04.076
my employer is, is taking care of me." There, there's a huge cultural shift that begins to

00:28:04.116 --> 00:28:04.576
happen.

00:28:05.056 --> 00:28:10.166
Um, and it's a, and it's just a watercooler effect where it's a, it's a positive thing.

00:28:10.726 --> 00:28:13.236
Uh, versus y- you look at a high-deductible

00:28:13.276 --> 00:28:16.976
plan, um, where we know the, you know, the vast majority

00:28:17.016 --> 00:28:18.076
of, uh, Americans

00:28:18.116 --> 00:28:21.496
don't have enough money in their savings account

00:28:21.596 --> 00:28:23.336
to pay for a deductible,

00:28:23.436 --> 00:28:26.076
so they're, you know, they're, they're teetering on that medical

00:28:26.176 --> 00:28:28.116
bankruptcy. It is such they

00:28:28.125 --> 00:28:34.306
avoid care. For sure. And when you avoid taking care of primary care things,

00:28:34.876 --> 00:28:39.996
and we, we look at musculoskeletal, and what we do is kind of primary care. You see us

00:28:40.036 --> 00:28:43.236
first. And when you see us first, we take care of things.

00:28:44.996 --> 00:28:45.996
The, the, you know, and if

00:28:46.036 --> 00:28:48.116
we don't do that, um, it's

00:28:48.156 --> 00:28:55.016
like, you know, driving, driving your car with a bald tire. Pretty soon it's gonna blow. Pretty soon you're gonna

00:28:55.035 --> 00:28:59.116
be driving on a rim. I mean, you, you wouldn't do that. You would, you would fix it. You would

00:28:59.176 --> 00:28:59.336
do

00:28:59.376 --> 00:29:01.036
things. This is the same thing for

00:29:01.076 --> 00:29:03.956
humans. Matt, where's the entry point?

00:29:04.156 --> 00:29:08.956
Where, you know, where do you catch this stuff? And, and I think we're kind of swirling around.

00:29:09.016 --> 00:29:09.036
I

00:29:09.076 --> 00:29:12.956
mean, you bring up, Tim, the, the high-deductible health plans and, and whatnot.

00:29:13.036 --> 00:29:16.296
You know, if you're, if you're making 15, 20 bucks an hour and you got a $6,000

00:29:16.336 --> 00:29:23.376
deductible, uh, on an HSA, you know, high de- I mean, I, I consider that person fundamentally uninsured,

00:29:23.776 --> 00:29:26.056
right? Right. Um, because- Mm-hmm ... you know, access to

00:29:26.096 --> 00:29:31.156
care and, and you know, for me, I always talk about, you know, what are the barriers? Well, time, money,

00:29:31.196 --> 00:29:36.476
and transportation, in my opinion, right? If you can- Yeah ... if you can remove those key logs, if you

00:29:36.516 --> 00:29:38.236
will, you, you're fine. But, but,

00:29:38.276 --> 00:29:41.256
you know, where, where is the place to catch

00:29:41.316 --> 00:29:47.396
this stuff? Is it the primary care level? Is it before that? Is it just, you know, just sheer education,

00:29:47.836 --> 00:29:52.086
you know, in an open enrollment meeting or, or something like that? Where, where do you, where does,

00:29:52.096 --> 00:29:55.446
where does one start to kind of get that, we'll call it upstream

00:29:55.496 --> 00:29:55.936
effect?

00:29:57.136 --> 00:30:02.056
Yeah. So, um, this is really interesting what you talk about, um, with how do you catch

00:30:02.136 --> 00:30:04.416
it, and there's a human behavior component

00:30:04.496 --> 00:30:10.056
to this, um, that makes it quite challenging as well. You mentioned the, the, you know, the waking

00:30:10.156 --> 00:30:10.926
up with the, the,

00:30:11.196 --> 00:30:17.836
the claim, uh, issue right away after the weekend. So, you know, with the P&C brokers we talk to, they

00:30:17.876 --> 00:30:21.006
talk about big concerns around the age thing Tim talked about,

00:30:21.516 --> 00:30:26.116
and they also have very big concerns about the deductible, high deductibles pushing

00:30:26.156 --> 00:30:30.356
a s- substantial risk over to the work comp side of the house, so they're very concerned

00:30:30.396 --> 00:30:36.376
about that. Um, so how do you catch it when people aren't using care because they have that high deductible?

00:30:37.104 --> 00:30:37.204
Well,

00:30:37.324 --> 00:30:40.404
the, uh, one, you've gotta address that issue,

00:30:40.804 --> 00:30:43.084
um, with the high deductible. So we work

00:30:43.144 --> 00:30:48.104
with many companies that do have deductible. They, but they provide care that's high value,

00:30:49.064 --> 00:30:52.044
and that is a good value benefit over

00:30:52.104 --> 00:30:56.484
cost for free. So we're in many of these work sites. So where do you catch it? You catch it

00:30:56.504 --> 00:30:58.164
where the people are. Because of that human

00:30:58.244 --> 00:31:01.974
behavior problem, people don't, don't wanna do anything for their health,

00:31:02.204 --> 00:31:05.924
80% of them, uh, according to Clayton Christensen, the late Clayton Christensen of

00:31:06.044 --> 00:31:09.984
Harbor- from Harvard. 80% of people don't care about their health unless they think they're sick

00:31:10.024 --> 00:31:14.004
or they're broken. So how do we... And, and now I've got a high deductible

00:31:14.064 --> 00:31:21.944
health plan, so, so now it's even, probably even less, the, you know- Yeah ... 95% aren't gonna do anything

00:31:22.004 --> 00:31:27.454
until they're feeling like they're dying. So where do we catch these people? We, we catch them in their workplaces,

00:31:27.524 --> 00:31:28.983
and we catch them

00:31:29.104 --> 00:31:33.944
with... And, and what we do is we mentioned, Tim mentioned that earlier, we do a monthly check-in with employees

00:31:34.024 --> 00:31:39.384
where, where we are finding who is having discomfort that could lead to pain, that could lead to claims.

00:31:39.394 --> 00:31:40.954
And we have to find them before

00:31:41.004 --> 00:31:43.054
they think they're sick, and then we have to reach out and

00:31:43.084 --> 00:31:45.994
say, "Can we help you?" And if you reach out and

00:31:46.024 --> 00:31:47.984
say, "Can we help you?" They will say

00:31:48.044 --> 00:31:52.044
yes, even though they wouldn't have asked for help because they don't think they're sick. And we

00:31:52.084 --> 00:31:54.964
get it early, and we fix it, and it, it's so much easier.

00:31:55.024 --> 00:31:58.564
But unless you have a strategy that overcomes the human behavior,

00:31:59.024 --> 00:32:00.444
with 80% avoiding,

00:32:01.184 --> 00:32:01.404
um,

00:32:02.064 --> 00:32:04.124
care, even, even without the deductible

00:32:04.164 --> 00:32:09.924
issue, y- there's gonna be a problem with access to be reactive and not proactive. So we have to

00:32:10.004 --> 00:32:13.104
catch them early when they're having discomfort before pain, before claim,

00:32:13.484 --> 00:32:14.084
and we have to catch

00:32:14.164 --> 00:32:16.184
them where they are. And, and we believe that

00:32:16.304 --> 00:32:18.224
is, um, with a hybrid

00:32:18.284 --> 00:32:24.884
approach, with actually going to the workplace, but also we do, uh, online stuff as well. Um, and then also

00:32:24.984 --> 00:32:28.964
having really easy access points. So that's a really, really good question. Thanks for

00:32:29.004 --> 00:32:29.424
asking it.

00:32:30.344 --> 00:32:33.244
Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it certainly

00:32:33.304 --> 00:32:35.084
addresses, you know, like I said, the,

00:32:35.864 --> 00:32:38.164
the time, money, and, and transportation piece

00:32:38.184 --> 00:32:41.144
of the puzzle, um- Correct ... in, in a, in a meaningful

00:32:41.244 --> 00:32:42.824
way. And, and I mean,

00:32:43.044 --> 00:32:43.744
look, you know,

00:32:44.504 --> 00:32:44.963
people are,

00:32:46.123 --> 00:32:48.004
from a productivity pers- I'm

00:32:48.044 --> 00:32:50.024
in, I'm in discomfort.

00:32:50.664 --> 00:32:51.064
O- okay,

00:32:51.164 --> 00:32:54.064
well, you know, if you have back pain or your shoulder hurts or your

00:32:54.124 --> 00:32:56.913
wrist is hurting, that's gonna show up in your performance,

00:32:57.024 --> 00:32:58.024
right? Um,

00:32:58.064 --> 00:33:01.193
Sure. You know, I think it touches, you know, even me personally,

00:33:01.444 --> 00:33:04.124
um, you know, back pain, this, that, and the other. I mean,

00:33:04.164 --> 00:33:06.193
it, there's a psychological component,

00:33:06.464 --> 00:33:07.964
right? Um, that- Yeah ...

00:33:08.004 --> 00:33:12.984
being in pain is, is far more than just your body. There's, there's a mental piece as well. Let, let's

00:33:13.004 --> 00:33:19.114
talk a little bit about that just, you know, off, off the cuff here. Is, is there, you know, in,

00:33:19.164 --> 00:33:25.084
in mental health or, or people, you know, using, um, those types of services, are there

00:33:25.164 --> 00:33:29.984
keys, uh, or places where, gosh, you know, we're seeing this type of activity

00:33:30.044 --> 00:33:33.174
or behavior, um, perhaps it's stemming

00:33:33.224 --> 00:33:36.044
from discomfort or pain or something

00:33:36.084 --> 00:33:40.264
like that? So when it comes to the mental health side,

00:33:40.644 --> 00:33:43.244
you know, that's, that's very interesting as well.

00:33:43.804 --> 00:33:48.124
How does the, the psychological, what's going on with a person affect this,

00:33:48.244 --> 00:33:51.924
um, one way or another? And also does, how does it affect root cause when you're trying to

00:33:52.024 --> 00:33:52.964
problem solve these

00:33:53.004 --> 00:34:00.044
things? Um, one of the things we know about pain, pain is an output. It's the brain interpreting, "Am

00:34:00.124 --> 00:34:00.164
I

00:34:00.224 --> 00:34:06.184
in danger?" And if I think I'm in danger, we're gonna have pain from a stimulus. So, so that is,

00:34:06.204 --> 00:34:07.224
you know, really, really

00:34:07.264 --> 00:34:12.954
important, um, to, to help people that are feeling hesitant to do things. And, and that's why

00:34:13.024 --> 00:34:15.184
I look at some of these virtual solutions, virtual-only

00:34:15.244 --> 00:34:24.344
solutions. Th- there are s- They don't have near the complexity to, to address the biopsychosocial part of the,

00:34:24.424 --> 00:34:27.164
of the situation that's happening. Um,

00:34:27.583 --> 00:34:28.224
root cause.

00:34:29.204 --> 00:34:31.043
A- another, uh, lady that I see at the,

00:34:31.143 --> 00:34:33.333
uh, at the plant I, I worked at yesterday,

00:34:33.924 --> 00:34:35.324
she's having neck discomfort.

00:34:36.324 --> 00:34:37.973
Um, what's driving it? Well, it's

00:34:38.043 --> 00:34:40.304
actually muscular, m- little muscle spasms

00:34:40.344 --> 00:34:44.063
in the neck, but the key driver for her as we got down to the

00:34:44.103 --> 00:34:48.074
why was, was stress. She goes, "Oh, I carry all my stress right

00:34:48.103 --> 00:34:50.973
here." You, you feel stress, you start to carry your muscles like

00:34:51.063 --> 00:34:54.353
this. Um, it was stress. Well, what was driving her stress

00:34:55.043 --> 00:34:56.083
was anxiety,

00:34:56.724 --> 00:34:56.984
mental

00:34:57.043 --> 00:34:59.044
health issue, but it was related to

00:34:59.064 --> 00:35:05.024
finances. So what did we do? Well, we have to make sure we're integrated with other solutions as well. We

00:35:05.084 --> 00:35:06.224
got her a- addressing

00:35:06.284 --> 00:35:06.964
that. You

00:35:07.004 --> 00:35:10.344
know, you, you have a, you have fi- a financial course that your employer

00:35:10.424 --> 00:35:12.924
offers that could help you with some of that financial

00:35:13.084 --> 00:35:17.014
stress. So I can play around with this all day long, but am I getting to the root cause,

00:35:17.084 --> 00:35:20.124
which is really the anxiety, a mental health

00:35:20.184 --> 00:35:24.964
issue? Underlying that is a financial, financial concerns that, you know, they

00:35:25.004 --> 00:35:30.984
have a, um, you know, a financial peace university for their people there. Um, it's so, it's just fascinating.

00:35:31.024 --> 00:35:34.124
The, the mental health component is right in it. It's all part of the root

00:35:34.224 --> 00:35:42.114
cause. Um, and we also know that physical activity is the best medicine for some of these mental health things

00:35:42.224 --> 00:35:46.004
around stress, anxiety, and so on. Yeah. But if I hurt, I don't move,

00:35:46.684 --> 00:35:46.884
right?

00:35:47.004 --> 00:35:49.364
Yeah. So, so this, this addressing

00:35:49.764 --> 00:35:52.404
the, the ability to move and the discomfort

00:35:53.364 --> 00:35:56.964
is huge for fixing things, but it's, um, yeah, again,

00:35:57.004 --> 00:36:04.734
a big piece of the puzzle. It's amazing to me how interconnected all these pieces are, right? As you start

00:36:04.764 --> 00:36:07.044
to identify the root cause of some of these things.

00:36:07.664 --> 00:36:10.324
Um- Yep ... and, and, you know, you guys have both alluded

00:36:10.424 --> 00:36:16.184
to, I mean, I'm just gonna use the word plan design or, or, you know, how a medical plan

00:36:16.284 --> 00:36:17.294
is, is built

00:36:17.844 --> 00:36:26.024
and some of the inadvertent barriers that we create by installing some of these, you know, particular plan designs and

00:36:26.084 --> 00:36:26.624
solutions

00:36:27.164 --> 00:36:33.954
and, you know, mainly around those, those high deductible solutions are, can be very challenging, um, and,

00:36:34.004 --> 00:36:35.334
and, you know, prevent people-

00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:39.000
Uh, from, from getting the care that they need, from whatever that

00:36:39.040 --> 00:36:45.280
might be, whether it be physical therapy, a surgery, a, you know, a CT scan, or just frankly just accessing,

00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:46.980
uh, perhaps a mental

00:36:47.060 --> 00:36:51.220
health provider, um, and being able to talk through, like, what is causing

00:36:51.240 --> 00:36:53.000
the stress, and then kind of play

00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:55.140
it out throughout, you know, throughout the system.

00:36:55.600 --> 00:36:57.920
And then you bring up the point of, you know, lack of

00:36:58.040 --> 00:36:58.500
movement.

00:36:59.080 --> 00:36:59.340
Well,

00:37:00.040 --> 00:37:01.060
you know, now,

00:37:01.380 --> 00:37:02.240
now you start gaining

00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:02.620
weight.

00:37:03.380 --> 00:37:04.100
Now, now...

00:37:04.460 --> 00:37:06.260
Right? I mean, it's a compounding effect.

00:37:06.640 --> 00:37:07.120
Oh my gosh.

00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:09.520
Yeah. Now, now I need a GLP-1,

00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:12.040
right? It's Wegovy We- Those

00:37:12.050 --> 00:37:13.319
are cheap. Yeah.

00:37:13.700 --> 00:37:16.100
You know, it's, it's, uh, Wegovy Wednesday, so

00:37:16.580 --> 00:37:18.940
I mean, at, at the end of the day- I like that, by the way. Yeah. I've not

00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:19.140
heard

00:37:19.180 --> 00:37:24.040
that before. Wegovy Wednesday. I wanna... I, I like it. Yeah. I just wanna point that

00:37:24.120 --> 00:37:28.680
out. But, but I mean, it's, it's amazing to me as we've, uh, we continue to uncover here, I mean,

00:37:28.740 --> 00:37:35.030
there's so many places where that little core thing that's showing up, and you see it as neck pain or

00:37:35.060 --> 00:37:42.230
muscle pain or s- whatever, but it starts to really perpetuate this, you know, throughout, throughout someone's life and,

00:37:42.240 --> 00:37:45.180
and frankly touches so many different pieces of a medical

00:37:45.240 --> 00:37:47.160
plan. Tim, let's

00:37:47.180 --> 00:37:49.060
talk a little bit- It, it, it... Yeah, go ahead

00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:54.220
... a little bit about that. I mean, you've, you've won some awards and whatnot in, in, in your world,

00:37:54.540 --> 00:37:56.080
um, for, for the, the medical

00:37:56.160 --> 00:37:56.800
plan and whatnot.

00:37:57.300 --> 00:37:59.280
I mean, let's talk a little bit about structure

00:37:59.300 --> 00:38:02.500
of that. How, how, how in your experience,

00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:03.060
um,

00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:05.060
for the consultants and brokers that, that

00:38:05.080 --> 00:38:09.120
are on the call, what makes sense? What, where are the success, knowing what you guys know

00:38:09.160 --> 00:38:12.960
today, um, on, on how to make something structurally sound to, to

00:38:13.020 --> 00:38:19.090
address this? Yeah, great question. And, and, you know, uh, there's... When you look

00:38:19.140 --> 00:38:24.100
at the, you know, taking somebody that's in a fully insured plan, which I was,

00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:26.280
and moving them to

00:38:27.020 --> 00:38:27.400
something

00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:30.140
that could be more advantageous for their employers

00:38:30.620 --> 00:38:31.500
or, or their employees,

00:38:32.020 --> 00:38:32.970
um, I, I was

00:38:33.040 --> 00:38:35.270
in this situation. And,

00:38:35.600 --> 00:38:40.220
you know, the, the very BUCA that I was paying my premiums to was paying

00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:46.140
me less. My benefits had gotten worse. It was the lowest rated employee satisfaction thing

00:38:46.160 --> 00:38:46.940
that I had.

00:38:47.500 --> 00:38:48.900
Um, and,

00:38:49.040 --> 00:38:51.200
you know, the, th- th- this spread

00:38:51.260 --> 00:38:55.080
that my premiums were going up and my payments were going down, this is ce-

00:38:55.380 --> 00:38:56.020
you know, I'm gonna cease to

00:38:56.060 --> 00:38:59.960
be in business. Um, so that's when, you know, I started to, to look at

00:39:00.020 --> 00:39:02.120
things and understand healthcare,

00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:05.480
um, and the difference between healthcare and health insurance.

00:39:06.240 --> 00:39:08.980
Being a frontline provider, I'm like, "Well, how do I play in

00:39:09.040 --> 00:39:11.000
this?" Um, and that's when, that's when I met

00:39:11.060 --> 00:39:13.000
Matt. Um, and,

00:39:13.640 --> 00:39:17.080
you know, when, when I met Matt, I'm like, "Okay, this is, this is the first thing we need

00:39:17.100 --> 00:39:18.040
to put in our plan

00:39:18.080 --> 00:39:20.080
because number one, it covers the most

00:39:20.200 --> 00:39:25.380
people." It is... We do manual labor for a living as therapists,

00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:33.140
and my people need to be feeling good in order to deliver our brand promise to our community.

00:39:33.220 --> 00:39:38.750
Um, if they're not feeling good, it's very hard to deal with other people who are uncomfortable. So it, it,

00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:40.080
it becomes impairment,

00:39:40.660 --> 00:39:45.940
paramount that we take care of ourselves first. But the reason you put in a musculoskeletal is

00:39:46.020 --> 00:39:47.320
because of its wide-reaching

00:39:47.380 --> 00:39:48.960
effect. It is going to have

00:39:49.020 --> 00:39:54.280
a, an effect on the other top six, um, medical issues you're having from depression,

00:39:54.340 --> 00:39:59.020
to, um, obesity, to heart disease, to diabetes. They all benefit,

00:39:59.060 --> 00:40:00.950
like we've said, from

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:06.220
movement. And if you don't feel good, you're not gonna move. So putting in a musculoskeletal

00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:06.820
solution

00:40:07.140 --> 00:40:09.000
makes sense, all right? So a

00:40:09.040 --> 00:40:09.620
lot of people,

00:40:10.080 --> 00:40:14.180
uh, you know, we, Matt and I have to thank Hinge and Sword for, for educating

00:40:14.240 --> 00:40:16.030
everybody on the importance of

00:40:16.120 --> 00:40:21.380
this. The challenge is that when you put in a reactive virtual only solution,

00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:27.200
you, you get about 4% of the population, and we've already said that the issue is, is north

00:40:27.240 --> 00:40:32.960
of 50, and so you've left this huge gap. You've checked a box that you put in something,

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:38.660
and they're getting a benefit from it, but it's not touching the population or making the cultural change that you're

00:40:38.680 --> 00:40:41.060
really looking for. Makes a lot

00:40:41.080 --> 00:40:44.140
of sense. Are there some pieces of the plan,

00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:48.060
um, just from, you know, co-pays or deductibles or where

00:40:48.120 --> 00:40:53.220
you've seen even in your own population where you've had people enroll, or what you even offer to your people,

00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:56.180
um, to kind of drive the right behavior,

00:40:56.699 --> 00:40:57.180
if you will?

00:40:57.740 --> 00:40:58.020
Um.

00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:04.080
It, yeah, it, and so Matt, Matt alluded to this earlier, when we put Solve Global into a company,

00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:05.000
uh, and we put it

00:41:05.040 --> 00:41:08.940
into our company, um, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's at no

00:41:09.080 --> 00:41:11.860
cost to the employee. We want that barrier

00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:16.100
of cost and location, like you said, transportation, access,

00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:16.980
we want those

00:41:17.020 --> 00:41:17.780
things eliminated,

00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:23.060
okay? And so that's really important when we go into a company, is to eliminate those barriers

00:41:23.900 --> 00:41:25.040
so that we get, we can

00:41:25.100 --> 00:41:25.519
drive

00:41:26.040 --> 00:41:30.140
engagement. Our engagement's 10 to 12 times what you get on a virtual

00:41:30.220 --> 00:41:34.040
only solution, and it's only when you get that level

00:41:34.100 --> 00:41:39.800
of engagement that you can really take care of a musculoskeletal issue in a population.

00:41:40.640 --> 00:41:41.060
Anything

00:41:41.120 --> 00:41:41.480
less,

00:41:42.100 --> 00:41:48.000
you're, you're kind of spitting in the wind. You're, you're, you're, you're, you're checking a box, but you're

00:41:48.040 --> 00:41:54.540
not really taking care of the situation. Sure. That makes sense. And what are kind of those pieces from an

00:41:54.580 --> 00:42:02.650
engagement perspective that you've seen successful in, in driving that higher level? Um, are there specific, you know, outreach things?

00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:08.020
Obviously, the cost is a big driver. Yeah. Location is a big driver. But what are some of those

00:42:08.100 --> 00:42:12.560
other kind of we'll call it proactive pieces that, that, that you've seen successful? It, it, this is... We, we

00:42:12.640 --> 00:42:17.500
cover all this in implementation. It, you, you think of the barrier to change, the competing,

00:42:18.060 --> 00:42:20.480
the competing things that a, an employer,

00:42:21.040 --> 00:42:23.080
um, even a broker sometimes has, you know,

00:42:23.180 --> 00:42:25.220
to putting in something new.

00:42:25.940 --> 00:42:29.060
Um, these competing, competing, uh, uh, you know,

00:42:29.560 --> 00:42:29.880
um,

00:42:30.300 --> 00:42:32.060
solutions or whatever that they're trying to

00:42:32.100 --> 00:42:32.700
do to put in,

00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:35.080
um, you've gotta, you've

00:42:35.120 --> 00:42:42.748
gotta overcome th- And we overcome it just through our implementation process. We do 95% of it. It, it's... So

00:42:42.948 --> 00:42:43.968
it is not a burden on the

00:42:44.108 --> 00:42:47.018
HR team, and it's not a burden on

00:42:47.048 --> 00:42:51.948
the company. We do all the communication. Um, you know, we, we help with

00:42:52.028 --> 00:42:54.458
all of that. Now, on certain companies,

00:42:55.108 --> 00:42:57.078
um, you know, we may run into

00:42:57.108 --> 00:43:05.048
a language issue. And so we- we're translated into five different languages. We remen- may run into a, a socioeconomic

00:43:05.168 --> 00:43:06.078
issue where people don't

00:43:06.108 --> 00:43:09.248
have phones, and we'll put a keypad

00:43:09.788 --> 00:43:12.008
right in their break room, right where they punch in and

00:43:12.128 --> 00:43:14.988
punch out, and so that they can take the check

00:43:15.048 --> 00:43:21.708
in there. We'll, we'll, we'll meet any of these barriers head-on because the key to this, as Matt's already alluded

00:43:21.768 --> 00:43:25.178
to, is driving engagement. And when we drive engagement,

00:43:25.508 --> 00:43:27.038
we know it works 'cause you're taking care

00:43:27.048 --> 00:43:27.448
of people.

00:43:28.068 --> 00:43:29.048
Makes sense. Now, Tim,

00:43:29.548 --> 00:43:33.128
Tim mentioned that, you know, his own company, I don't know, I, I don't wanna- don't wanna

00:43:33.368 --> 00:43:37.328
rush over this 'cause this is so wild. Tim- Tim's company's got 600 employees,

00:43:38.108 --> 00:43:39.068
and he provides

00:43:39.088 --> 00:43:41.028
care, uh, physical therapy

00:43:41.128 --> 00:43:42.368
care for,

00:43:43.108 --> 00:43:44.128
uh, groups such as Blue

00:43:44.188 --> 00:43:44.568
Cross.

00:43:45.468 --> 00:43:48.948
So Blue Cross is paying l- his physical therapy

00:43:49.008 --> 00:43:54.108
clinic less, and he's buying Blue Cross insurance, and it's costing him more.

00:43:54.248 --> 00:43:59.208
So you... So where's the money going in the middle? It's crazy, and, and that's really,

00:43:59.228 --> 00:43:59.998
there's a lot of

00:44:00.548 --> 00:44:05.068
y- you know, are we, are we actually paying for where the value's being created? So that was huge.

00:44:05.128 --> 00:44:08.288
So when you're a provider and you see that, you're going, "This is crazy. We gotta do something

00:44:08.308 --> 00:44:12.128
else." Yeah. Um, and then it comes down to plan design. So what Tim did,

00:44:12.588 --> 00:44:15.908
what other companies that we work with, like Breakbush, a company we've been with since

00:44:16.028 --> 00:44:19.788
2007, they, they started their healthcare strategy

00:44:20.408 --> 00:44:22.708
with going after musculoskeletal

00:44:23.348 --> 00:44:28.238
and going, you know, self-insured. Now, the, the musculoskeletal, again, it's low-hanging fruit,

00:44:28.238 --> 00:44:34.458
and it's address- affects 50% plus. I put that in, I started helping 50% of my people right away. We're

00:44:34.508 --> 00:44:39.048
caring for them, we're finding them if they're having issues. Um, and we, we want to make sure we're

00:44:39.068 --> 00:44:45.068
touching 50 to 60% plus of a population in a year so that we know we're giving people

00:44:45.108 --> 00:44:49.108
the help. Um, now what's interesting, uh, the, the company that, uh, Breakbush

00:44:49.148 --> 00:44:51.648
that I mentioned, started with musculoskeletal,

00:44:52.178 --> 00:44:57.208
had success there, and we started right in the company, but now they have a full onsite

00:44:57.248 --> 00:45:04.088
medical clinic. They started with musculoskeletal, now they have DPC alongside it, now they have a chaplain service alongside

00:45:04.128 --> 00:45:06.048
it. They have mental health counselors that come

00:45:06.108 --> 00:45:13.308
in, and they have financial counseling coming in. But it all started around going after low-hanging fruit first, the musculoskeletal,

00:45:13.368 --> 00:45:19.688
and, and winning there, and then we start to win in these other areas. And now companies like Breakbush in,

00:45:19.788 --> 00:45:25.968
um, 2024 compared to 10 years earlier, $1,500 less per member per mo- uh, per

00:45:26.028 --> 00:45:27.008
year, uh,

00:45:27.028 --> 00:45:32.428
for their health plan. Actually, it was- Per month. Per month ... per month. I'm sorry. It's $1,500 less per

00:45:32.488 --> 00:45:33.248
member per month,

00:45:34.008 --> 00:45:36.028
um, than it was 10

00:45:36.068 --> 00:45:38.048
years earlier, uh, when they were fully

00:45:38.068 --> 00:45:44.037
insured. And that, that speaks volumes, right? L- let's talk- Yeah ... just out of curiosity, right?

00:45:44.408 --> 00:45:48.988
L- maybe just throw out some kind of ranges, if you will. But, you know, the cost to

00:45:49.028 --> 00:45:53.348
an employer, or just the, just the total cost, not even the split between the employer and the employee,

00:45:53.408 --> 00:45:57.128
but, you know, a musculoskeletal issue that, that someone might have, right?

00:45:57.208 --> 00:46:00.128
A, a, a back surgery or,

00:46:00.188 --> 00:46:03.228
you know. Like, what, what's kind of the cost? I mean, are these...

00:46:03.548 --> 00:46:08.168
Is this a $5,000 experience? I know what my back surgery cost and all the stuff I- Yours was 75

00:46:08.208 --> 00:46:09.938
grand. Yeah. I mean, what, what,

00:46:10.068 --> 00:46:14.148
what's the cost, you know, on, on the employee's- And the next one with the fusion's gonna be 150.

00:46:14.708 --> 00:46:14.828
Yeah.

00:46:15.248 --> 00:46:15.268
I

00:46:15.308 --> 00:46:17.328
mean- Sorry ... these are, these are big dollars,

00:46:17.868 --> 00:46:18.928
right? I mean, these are not-

00:46:19.037 --> 00:46:19.738
They're huge ... insignificant.

00:46:20.368 --> 00:46:20.598
Um, and,

00:46:21.108 --> 00:46:24.638
you know, if you're- But the, the, one, one of the key things with that, David, which is really interesting,

00:46:24.688 --> 00:46:27.128
is that depending on where someone sets their

00:46:27.168 --> 00:46:29.128
stop loss, they may be just

00:46:29.188 --> 00:46:35.348
under the radar, and they may not trigger a shock claim or whatever you wanna call, what- whatever you wanna

00:46:35.388 --> 00:46:37.128
call that. They, they may not trigger

00:46:37.188 --> 00:46:39.048
that, but they'll slice

00:46:39.068 --> 00:46:46.248
and dice you through, through volume because there's so many of them. Yep. Yeah. Well, and it creeps up. It's,

00:46:46.268 --> 00:46:50.308
you know, it's the three steroid injections and epidurals,

00:46:50.948 --> 00:46:52.158
uh- Yep ... you know, that you got,

00:46:52.668 --> 00:46:52.988
and, you

00:46:53.068 --> 00:46:58.018
know- Yep ... it's the, it's the anesthesiologist bill and all the other stuff that... I mean,

00:46:58.088 --> 00:47:04.128
those, those are... I've seen those come through from a bill charges, you know, 10, 15 grand, maybe more.

00:47:04.188 --> 00:47:08.188
Next thing you know- Yep ... you're in an ambulatory surgical center getting a steroid injection, and,

00:47:08.208 --> 00:47:14.008
you know, yeah, your, your deductible might be 1,000 bucks, but behind the scenes, that's a $20,000

00:47:14.048 --> 00:47:14.768
experience.

00:47:16.168 --> 00:47:18.018
Can be. Yeah. And- Very expensive

00:47:18.048 --> 00:47:20.988
... and, and, and there, there is a place and time for

00:47:21.028 --> 00:47:22.268
those. Um,

00:47:22.608 --> 00:47:24.128
but if you start with medical first, that's

00:47:24.148 --> 00:47:27.078
what you're gonna get, and you still haven't started to address the

00:47:27.108 --> 00:47:31.968
root cause. So also, you know, just to piggyback on what you talked about, David, those costs

00:47:32.008 --> 00:47:32.788
are really high.

00:47:33.628 --> 00:47:37.108
Um, and there's solutions in the MSK world. Well, let's,

00:47:37.168 --> 00:47:42.948
let's, let's decrease the spend on that. So let's, let's lower the price, uh, with a bundled,

00:47:43.008 --> 00:47:46.148
you know, by purchasing bundled payments with a surgery center or whatever.

00:47:46.768 --> 00:47:47.288
Absolutely

00:47:47.308 --> 00:47:47.928
you should do that.

00:47:48.428 --> 00:47:48.888
But again,

00:47:49.588 --> 00:47:55.088
um, are we affecting the root cause with driving those surgeries? I mean, if I'm going, "Okay,

00:47:55.668 --> 00:47:59.008
I have five surgeries for 10,000 or 10

00:47:59.068 --> 00:48:01.367
surgeries for 5,000," it's still the same amount.

00:48:01.928 --> 00:48:02.208
Um,

00:48:02.688 --> 00:48:05.068
so we've, we've got to address the root cause of these

00:48:05.128 --> 00:48:13.228
things. So when we're thinking about a comprehensive MSK strategy or a total MSK solution, we've got to be fi-

00:48:13.268 --> 00:48:19.328
finding upstream risk and fixing that. And then, but we... And then we do need the value in the surgery

00:48:19.428 --> 00:48:23.398
centers that we're going to use around bundled payments and so on, but we need to make sure we have

00:48:23.468 --> 00:48:29.048
that, that, uh, complete package because those costs that you guys were talking about are so high. Yeah. I've

00:48:29.108 --> 00:48:34.248
seen, I, I've seen, uh, I've seen quarter million dollar claims on the work comp side re- related

00:48:34.288 --> 00:48:37.168
to low back. Um, not uncommon to

00:48:37.268 --> 00:48:39.268
see, um, six figures

00:48:39.668 --> 00:48:44.008
in the work comp side. Sometimes they, they're better at negotiating on the employee benefit side

00:48:44.048 --> 00:48:45.148
on some of these things.

00:48:45.688 --> 00:48:46.088
So, but,

00:48:46.168 --> 00:48:51.924
but again, it's- You, you see- And that, and that's when they go clean. You, you have a complication,

00:48:52.004 --> 00:48:54.284
you have a, uh, an infection or something

00:48:54.304 --> 00:48:58.064
like that, and you're, you're easily going into the upper

00:48:58.074 --> 00:48:58.784
six digits.

00:48:59.434 --> 00:49:02.254
Sure. Um, you know, with multiple hospitalizations,

00:49:02.284 --> 00:49:04.144
et cetera. Um, I mean, Dave,

00:49:04.224 --> 00:49:05.964
do you, I mean, do you know you had back

00:49:06.024 --> 00:49:06.364
surgery?

00:49:08.444 --> 00:49:08.754
Oh, yeah.

00:49:09.364 --> 00:49:09.504
Yeah.

00:49:10.084 --> 00:49:17.304
Okay. So does everyone who's had knee surgery, everyone who's had an, a shoulder surgery. They're in the workforce.

00:49:17.684 --> 00:49:19.984
So now that they're in the workforce, how are they being cared

00:49:20.023 --> 00:49:21.924
for? Right. They still n- they

00:49:22.024 --> 00:49:27.294
still need help. And, and so when you think of all of these procedures that are being done,

00:49:27.904 --> 00:49:29.504
and now they're in your workforce,

00:49:30.104 --> 00:49:30.844
what are we doing

00:49:31.024 --> 00:49:35.304
to help them so it doesn't become a chronic issue, doesn't become a disability,

00:49:35.864 --> 00:49:41.964
doesn't become an opioid issue, doesn't become one of the other massive things where MSK ranks number

00:49:42.124 --> 00:49:43.704
one at in,

00:49:44.084 --> 00:49:48.364
I- you know, in causing? And it's like this is where a traditional health plan

00:49:49.604 --> 00:49:50.024
fails,

00:49:50.964 --> 00:49:51.284
okay?

00:49:51.884 --> 00:49:52.164
Um,

00:49:52.744 --> 00:49:53.204
because

00:49:53.564 --> 00:49:56.064
how do we measure the trajectory of that claim,

00:49:56.464 --> 00:49:59.044
of that person over the next five years?

00:50:00.744 --> 00:50:04.024
Well, if, if I'm in a, if I'm in a typical BUCA plan, I get 20

00:50:04.104 --> 00:50:08.844
visits a year. I have to do a plan of care as a physical therapist in an outpatient clinic.

00:50:09.134 --> 00:50:10.154
That means I gotta get someone

00:50:10.184 --> 00:50:15.044
to come in, do a plan of care, and, and then I'm supposed to, to, to not

00:50:15.124 --> 00:50:17.024
see them. Whereas in our

00:50:17.064 --> 00:50:17.464
system,

00:50:18.044 --> 00:50:20.004
you know what, Dave, you've got an ongoing

00:50:20.044 --> 00:50:21.004
issue. You're a

00:50:21.084 --> 00:50:24.024
young man. You're, you're, you've got a lot of life ahead

00:50:24.084 --> 00:50:25.124
of you. We've gotta

00:50:25.184 --> 00:50:28.224
help you over the next 20 years.

00:50:28.764 --> 00:50:28.964
So

00:50:29.464 --> 00:50:31.004
let me see you once

00:50:31.304 --> 00:50:33.124
every two weeks, once a, once a month

00:50:33.504 --> 00:50:36.004
to show you some exercises, to see how you're doing,

00:50:36.344 --> 00:50:36.984
to maybe work

00:50:37.044 --> 00:50:40.084
on you a little bit to keep your body moving

00:50:40.684 --> 00:50:40.964
and

00:50:41.024 --> 00:50:49.544
healthy. And that's what this system allows us to do because it's not part of that health insurance limitation.

00:50:50.464 --> 00:50:52.944
Sure. And I think, you know, you bring up so many

00:50:53.004 --> 00:50:53.704
good points.

00:50:54.384 --> 00:50:56.444
Um, and I'll say structure matters,

00:50:56.843 --> 00:50:57.084
right?

00:50:57.343 --> 00:51:02.044
So, you know- Yeah ... the conversation in the fully insured world is, is pretty

00:51:02.084 --> 00:51:06.114
brief when we're talking about, you know, what are the things... I mean, even from a transparency of

00:51:06.124 --> 00:51:07.224
what does the data say,

00:51:07.264 --> 00:51:07.704
good luck,

00:51:08.174 --> 00:51:12.784
right? If you're, if you're a 2005 case- Not getting any ... you know, and a consultant, uh, in a

00:51:12.904 --> 00:51:15.004
state where, you know, short of Texas or

00:51:15.104 --> 00:51:16.964
others, uh, where you can get some claims

00:51:17.133 --> 00:51:18.944
data, I mean, you're flying blind on

00:51:19.004 --> 00:51:23.394
this deal, um, let alone having the tools and the resources

00:51:23.724 --> 00:51:26.244
when you go into a self-funded plan or a level-funded plan,

00:51:26.824 --> 00:51:29.184
um, to be. So, you know, a lot of these strategies,

00:51:29.864 --> 00:51:30.104
um,

00:51:30.984 --> 00:51:33.034
to, to implement and implement correctly,

00:51:33.644 --> 00:51:35.004
you gotta take people out of the

00:51:35.024 --> 00:51:37.264
swamp, right? You gotta get them out of the community

00:51:37.344 --> 00:51:40.144
rated, uh, fully insured world,

00:51:40.764 --> 00:51:47.024
um, and put them into a platform that you can have a fighting chance in putting,

00:51:47.064 --> 00:51:53.064
you know, some of these strategies and whatnot in, in place. Look, it's, uh, it's-- We got about 10 minutes

00:51:53.144 --> 00:51:57.784
here to the top of the hour, and this has been, this has been very insightful for me, and I'm

00:51:57.804 --> 00:52:00.204
sure for, for those sitting around the, the campfire.

00:52:00.764 --> 00:52:01.004
Um,

00:52:01.404 --> 00:52:02.054
I don't necessarily

00:52:02.204 --> 00:52:04.334
see any Q&A questions,

00:52:04.704 --> 00:52:08.254
but maybe we'll kind of start to, to think about what are some of those

00:52:08.844 --> 00:52:14.144
action items, right? If you were to pick, Matt, you know, two things as we walk

00:52:14.204 --> 00:52:17.424
away, uh, from, from the fireside

00:52:17.434 --> 00:52:22.124
today that, that brokers and consultants on the call could do, what, what would be those

00:52:22.244 --> 00:52:25.014
two things, right? The most impactful things as,

00:52:25.144 --> 00:52:27.944
as they walk away. Yeah. I would look at, look

00:52:28.024 --> 00:52:31.004
at, um, companies that they know they have a problem,

00:52:31.424 --> 00:52:35.064
uh, or they think they might have a problem. Look at the claims data, but look at an accurate claims

00:52:35.144 --> 00:52:38.074
data poll. Feel free to reach out if you wonder what that, you know, what that should

00:52:38.104 --> 00:52:43.554
be. You get an accurate data poll, look at the MSK, and decide, "Okay. Yeah, I need to focus on

00:52:43.644 --> 00:52:48.224
this." Uh, I was talking with a company that had a $2 million plus worth comp spend.

00:52:48.724 --> 00:52:51.304
Uh, not work comp spend. They had a $2 million plus MSK

00:52:51.404 --> 00:52:57.504
spend, and they decided that their focus next year was gonna be on, uh, just a generic wellness program.

00:52:57.964 --> 00:52:58.884
And I'm going, "Okay. Well,

00:52:59.024 --> 00:53:04.954
let's, let's, let's decide to put dollars where we're actually gonna drive the most value." So, you know,

00:53:05.004 --> 00:53:10.034
look and decide, you know, what are your focus for next year? What are your top three? And if

00:53:10.144 --> 00:53:14.604
MSK is in your top three on your spend, it should be in the top three priority for that company.

00:53:14.674 --> 00:53:16.004
So then make a decision to

00:53:16.044 --> 00:53:18.884
go after it, but not just chasing price,

00:53:19.104 --> 00:53:21.444
chasing a, a system that's gonna drive

00:53:22.024 --> 00:53:24.274
finding, fixing, managing root cause

00:53:24.404 --> 00:53:27.264
risk. Um, you took on the risk of self-insurance.

00:53:27.684 --> 00:53:31.624
What are we doing to manage risk for our number one cost driver musculoskeletal?

00:53:32.324 --> 00:53:36.004
So, so look to see how big the problem is if you have a problem, and then, then decide to

00:53:36.044 --> 00:53:39.984
put that in your top three priority, um, on your strategies you're gonna bring to

00:53:40.024 --> 00:53:43.303
your employers. I love that. That's really insightful.

00:53:44.004 --> 00:53:44.184
Tim,

00:53:44.224 --> 00:53:44.844
what would be,

00:53:45.184 --> 00:53:46.064
you know, one

00:53:46.104 --> 00:53:51.104
or two things, uh, as we, uh, as we wrap up for, for consultants to kind

00:53:51.124 --> 00:53:55.304
of think about? Yeah. I'm gonna save them the trouble of looking at claims.

00:53:55.364 --> 00:53:55.604
We've,

00:53:56.164 --> 00:54:03.184
we've, we've looked at dozens and dozens and dozens of companies, and the, it's, it's between 18% and 30%.

00:54:04.404 --> 00:54:07.984
It, it, historically. I mean, it, it, we just don't find it on, on

00:54:08.044 --> 00:54:12.084
the group health side, and we know it's north of 60 on the, on the workman's comp

00:54:12.124 --> 00:54:15.144
side. Your employer has an issue. More importantly,

00:54:15.684 --> 00:54:16.064
um,

00:54:16.644 --> 00:54:16.684
you

00:54:16.744 --> 00:54:16.904
know,

00:54:17.504 --> 00:54:17.664
if,

00:54:18.124 --> 00:54:21.144
if they're facing a significant premium increase,

00:54:21.644 --> 00:54:23.004
they need healthcare

00:54:23.084 --> 00:54:28.884
in their health plan. We're the, we're the least expensive thing you could put in that's gonna affect the most

00:54:28.924 --> 00:54:30.244
people and have the greatest

00:54:30.344 --> 00:54:30.804
benefit.

00:54:31.184 --> 00:54:35.964
And so, y- you know, there, there's, y- you look at putting in DPC. Well, that's great for

00:54:36.004 --> 00:54:38.844
medical. But when it comes to musculoskeletal,

00:54:39.184 --> 00:54:44.244
what they're gonna do is write a referral to get an MRI, write a referral for a medication,

00:54:44.304 --> 00:54:45.244
write a referral

00:54:45.324 --> 00:54:48.104
to get, to get treatment. They're not gonna, they're not gonna

00:54:48.224 --> 00:54:51.004
intervene. Now, they may take care of some metabolic things, and

00:54:51.024 --> 00:54:51.824
that's great,

00:54:52.384 --> 00:54:56.008
um- And, you know, uh, I mean, in, in my own plan,

00:54:56.388 --> 00:54:56.977
we started with

00:54:57.088 --> 00:55:03.068
MSK, then we added DPC, and the combination is at no cost to my

00:55:03.088 --> 00:55:07.168
employees, but it, it provides a very good safety net.

00:55:07.828 --> 00:55:10.268
And, and so we're able to take care of our, our people,

00:55:10.848 --> 00:55:11.228
um,

00:55:11.728 --> 00:55:12.108
and,

00:55:12.668 --> 00:55:13.328
and th-this,

00:55:13.448 --> 00:55:13.748
the, you know,

00:55:14.188 --> 00:55:19.258
it, it has a-- it's, it's been able to keep our premiums at 100 bucks, our deductible at 500.

00:55:19.748 --> 00:55:24.078
We pay for student loan repayment all off of what we would have previously been spending

00:55:24.108 --> 00:55:26.978
on healthcare. Amazing. You know, and, and

00:55:27.008 --> 00:55:33.098
again, I hear the same thing over and over and over, even on this, you know, chat around removing

00:55:33.128 --> 00:55:34.828
the barriers to care, right?

00:55:35.108 --> 00:55:38.228
Yep. Um, and, you know, that's, that's access,

00:55:38.988 --> 00:55:40.948
uh, for meeting those employees where they're

00:55:41.068 --> 00:55:42.088
at, right? Yep.

00:55:42.168 --> 00:55:45.268
And obviously the other barrier is, is cost,

00:55:45.568 --> 00:55:45.688
um-

00:55:45.728 --> 00:55:49.008
Yep ... which is, which is, which is so impactful. You know, Charlotte here has

00:55:49.208 --> 00:55:52.918
a, has a question, um, "What size company is eligible for these types of

00:55:53.068 --> 00:55:54.188
services?" Maybe

00:55:54.228 --> 00:56:00.088
take a quick, uh, hot minute, guys, and, and, you know, kind of maybe explain kinda how your solution works

00:56:00.148 --> 00:56:00.978
for, for the folks that are

00:56:01.028 --> 00:56:05.758
on the call. Let me take a shot at that, Tim. I can go after you. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

00:56:05.758 --> 00:56:11.318
Yeah. So gen-generally, if you've got a workforce that's 100, 150 and above,

00:56:12.028 --> 00:56:18.188
you've got a work comp spend that can be addressed very effectively with the type of musculoskeletal

00:56:18.248 --> 00:56:20.408
strategy that we're talking about.

00:56:20.548 --> 00:56:24.968
Um, it works best when you have aggregation points of employees.

00:56:25.228 --> 00:56:30.438
So if we have, if we have 100, uh, employees, and there's five people per location,

00:56:31.308 --> 00:56:31.668
um-

00:56:32.188 --> 00:56:32.838
That's not gonna work

00:56:33.068 --> 00:56:36.988
... not, not gonna work. Um, but if you have 100, 150 plus, and the people

00:56:37.028 --> 00:56:37.768
are aggregated,

00:56:38.568 --> 00:56:41.988
you know, a-away, away we go. There's gonna be value that we can

00:56:42.028 --> 00:56:46.218
drive. And, and for those, you know, that do have remote workers,

00:56:46.588 --> 00:56:48.988
if we have the bolus so we can take care of the majority of

00:56:49.048 --> 00:56:51.988
things, great, and then we'll use our virtual capabilities

00:56:52.028 --> 00:56:54.028
to reach out and connect with those others.

00:56:54.088 --> 00:56:56.368
So we do have a-- we do have options

00:56:56.448 --> 00:56:56.848
for 'em.

00:56:57.328 --> 00:56:59.028
Um, you know, but it, it--

00:56:59.848 --> 00:57:02.107
one of the, one of the things we see HR teams try and do

00:57:02.177 --> 00:57:06.088
is say, "Hey, I want this to be equal

00:57:06.128 --> 00:57:13.668
for everyone." And the answer is, "No, you don't." Because y-we could have 10 people in the room with low

00:57:13.688 --> 00:57:19.068
back pain, and they need 10 different, 10 different things to do for their

00:57:19.088 --> 00:57:23.188
back pain, okay? So we do not wanna give them all a stretch and flex

00:57:23.198 --> 00:57:26.998
program because it may be coming from their upper back. It may be coming

00:57:27.028 --> 00:57:31.388
from their hip. It may be coming from their feet. Um, and so we need to address,

00:57:32.048 --> 00:57:36.148
you know, we need to, to me- to, to look at the entire population to find

00:57:36.188 --> 00:57:40.248
the risk, but when we drill down, we treat individually,

00:57:41.708 --> 00:57:42.088
which is

00:57:42.128 --> 00:57:46.308
really key. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, healthcare is so

00:57:46.368 --> 00:57:51.148
personalized, and, and we see that here at Angle Health as well. I mean, leveraging AI and machine

00:57:51.228 --> 00:57:55.168
learning and, and, you know, the capabilities that we have,

00:57:55.548 --> 00:57:59.008
um, in ultra-focused and personalized

00:57:59.068 --> 00:58:04.018
information, um, and outreach and communication, right? So that, that's such a key component.

00:58:04.908 --> 00:58:11.148
Look, gentlemen, this has been, again, extremely insightful, uh, a topic that's, that's certainly near and dear to my heart

00:58:11.208 --> 00:58:18.058
and, and, uh, uh, my experiences as, as, you know, a, uh, someone that's dealt with muscular skeletal issues for,

00:58:18.248 --> 00:58:19.078
for, for many, many

00:58:19.148 --> 00:58:19.508
years.

00:58:20.448 --> 00:58:22.168
Um, and I appreciate your,

00:58:22.228 --> 00:58:27.628
your insight. Wanna kind of alert everybody to, uh, kind of our next,

00:58:27.748 --> 00:58:33.108
uh, Fireside. I've put that up on the, on the screen here. Um, super excited,

00:58:33.428 --> 00:58:36.248
uh, about partnering with Peloton, interestingly

00:58:36.308 --> 00:58:37.948
enough, uh, to talk about

00:58:38.168 --> 00:58:38.908
metabolic

00:58:39.248 --> 00:58:43.028
wellness. Um, so if you have not already registered for

00:58:43.068 --> 00:58:47.008
this Fireside, uh, September 15th at 2:00 PM Eastern, get your

00:58:47.028 --> 00:58:50.048
phone out, uh, scan that QR code and, and

00:58:50.148 --> 00:58:50.788
register,

00:58:51.168 --> 00:58:52.168
uh, for that

00:58:52.368 --> 00:58:58.308
event, um, 'cause it's gonna be a good one for sure. Uh, one of the other traditions we have

00:58:58.388 --> 00:59:01.038
around the Fireside is, is calling some winners,

00:59:01.708 --> 00:59:03.228
um, of our Fireside,

00:59:03.308 --> 00:59:05.248
uh, swag that we send

00:59:05.308 --> 00:59:07.108
out, um, so I'm gonna take a,

00:59:07.148 --> 00:59:10.228
a hot minute here. If I call your name,

00:59:10.848 --> 00:59:10.967
um,

00:59:11.068 --> 00:59:16.288
do me a favor, send an email to sales@anglehealth.com,

00:59:16.708 --> 00:59:17.928
sales@anglehealth.com.

00:59:18.548 --> 00:59:22.208
Uh, include your email address and your shipping

00:59:22.268 --> 00:59:28.928
address, uh, and we will facilitate, uh, getting, getting the prize pack out to you. So, uh, I'm gonna pick

00:59:28.988 --> 00:59:30.068
some random names here.

00:59:30.088 --> 00:59:32.068
How about Brent Meister?

00:59:32.078 --> 00:59:35.388
Brent, uh, if you, uh, can send a, uh, an email

00:59:35.488 --> 00:59:35.748
out.

00:59:36.468 --> 00:59:39.348
Um, and we have

00:59:41.928 --> 00:59:43.408
Shannon Brown.

00:59:43.748 --> 00:59:44.128
Shannon

00:59:44.148 --> 00:59:47.048
Brown, if you could send a note to, uh, to

00:59:47.128 --> 00:59:51.648
Angle Health, uh, sales@anglehealth.com, that'd be fantastic.

00:59:52.768 --> 00:59:54.088
And how about Tina

00:59:54.428 --> 00:59:54.968
Adams?

00:59:55.288 --> 00:59:56.148
Tina Adams,

00:59:57.108 --> 01:00:00.037
if you could send a note there to sales@anglehealth.com, include your

01:00:00.088 --> 01:00:06.008
email address, phone number, and, uh, and, and shipping address, that'd be, that'd be super helpful. We'll get a,

01:00:06.018 --> 01:00:06.968
a prize pack out to

01:00:07.028 --> 01:00:10.898
you as, as well. Gentlemen, thank you again so

01:00:11.008 --> 01:00:17.028
much, um, for, uh, for your time this, this morning around the Fireside. A little earlier than we typically

01:00:17.048 --> 01:00:22.308
host, uh, but, but I appreciate, uh, you, uh, you participating and, and the insight,

01:00:22.688 --> 01:00:23.248
right? That,

01:00:23.328 --> 01:00:25.798
uh, that comes along with, uh,

01:00:26.068 --> 01:00:30.248
with this topic. Thanks for having us. Thanks, David. It's, uh- Very enjoyable

01:00:30.928 --> 01:00:32.188
... yeah, appreciate it. And,

01:00:32.228 --> 01:00:37.088
uh, we both put our, uh, our, our emails in there if, uh, people wanna reach out to us, uh,

01:00:37.208 --> 01:00:37.278
to

01:00:37.348 --> 01:00:40.148
have-- if they have further questions, uh, happy to,

01:00:40.388 --> 01:00:43.968
happy to, happy to discuss and, uh, and help

01:00:44.088 --> 01:00:48.988
you, you know, gain, gain more business, you know, and, and take care of your clients. Uh, we

01:00:49.028 --> 01:00:49.138
know

01:00:49.168 --> 01:00:55.888
that this issue, uh, we have, we have clients from Washington to North Carolina, so, uh, there's not a,

01:00:56.008 --> 01:00:57.008
there's not a region or an

01:00:57.068 --> 01:01:00.068
area that, you know, we can't get to that, uh, doesn't need help.

01:01:00.148 --> 01:01:00.828
So thank you.

01:01:01.668 --> 01:01:03.128
Awesome. Have a great

01:01:03.748 --> 01:01:07.028
afternoon, everybody, and looking forward to seeing you at the next Fireside here coming up

01:01:07.088 --> 01:01:07.648
in September.

01:01:09.588 --> 01:01:09.988
Thank you.